Welcome to Sustain WP, a limited podcast series about digital sustainability and WordPress. I’m your host Nahuai Badiola and in this episode I will be talking about how the sustainability initiative was created and then become into an official team.
In the episode 1, I talked briefly about it with Hannah Hannah but in this episode I wanted to look back to the process of how we arrived to have an official WordPress Sustainability Team, what we have done so far and what are we planning to do.
For that I’m joined by Nora Ferreirós, Thijs Buijs and Csaba Varszegi which have been behind the WordPress Sustainability initiative from the beginning.
Some of the points we talked about are:
- Nora’s question in WordCamp Europe 2022
- WordPress Sustainability Slack channel creation
- The first time we got in contact with the Sustainability initiative
- First post on Make WordPress on November 2022
- What we did as initiative:
- Weekly Slack Meetings (starting in November 2022)
- Write the document with guidelines for more sustainable WP events
- Work on a plugin to display environmental data on WordPress
- Proposal to establish a WordPress Sustainability Team.
- Share the vision https://oursustainablewp.org/
- WordPress Sustainability Team creation WordCamp Europe 2023(June 2023)
- What are we doing right now?
- Brief review of the voting process. The team has official Team Reps now.
- Set workflows in place
- What are we planning to do
- Decide which projects from the roadmap we move forward
- Consolidate the guidelines for more sustainable WP events
- Open to new contributors and ideas
Join the WordPress Sustainability Slack channel
If you are interested on contributing on any of the topics we mentioned, or you want to bring a new one, you can start by joining the Sustainability Slack channel.
- WordPress Sustainability Slack channel
- Now we have a sustainability channel in Making WordPress Slack, what should we do? (Make WordPress)
- Proposal: establishment of a formal WordPress Sustainability Team (Make WordPress)
- Our Sustainable WP
- How the WordPress Sustainability Team was born during WordCamp Europe 2023 (Make WordPress)
- Guidelines to make WordPress events more sustainable (Collaborative GDoc – WP Sustainability Team)
- Roadmap for the WordPress Sustainability Team (Collaborative GDoc)
- Roadmap for the WordPress Sustainability Team (Github)
- WordCamp Europe 2024
- WordCamp Europe 2024 train routes (Choo-Choo travel agency)
- Sustainability as an umbrella term post (GWF)
00:00:14 Nahuai Badiola
Welcome to Sustain WP, a limited podcast series about digital sustainability and WordPress. I’m your host NahuaiBadiola and in this episode I will be talking about how the sustainability initiative was created and then become into anofficial team.
00:00:31 Nahuai Badiola
In the episode 1, I talked briefly about it with Hannah Hannah but in this episode I wanted to look back to the processof how we arrived to have an official WordPress Sustainability Team, what we have done so far and what are weplanning to do.
For that I’m joined by Nora Ferreirós,
00:00:51 Nahuai Badiola
Thijs Buijs and Csaba Varszegi which have been behind the WordPress Sustainability initiative from the beginning. So I think the best way to start with it is with Nora’s question in WordCamp Europe in 2022. So it was in in Porto, so not ifit’s OK you can introduce.
00:01:11 Nahuai Badiola
Briefly yourself and explain how you got into this message.
00:01:16 Nora Ferreirós
Hello. Now why hello everybody. Well, thank you for inviting me to explain this.
00:01:22 Nora Ferreirós
Moment of my life.
00:01:25 Nora Ferreirós
So yeah, I’m basically a US UI graphic designer or user designer freelance. I have been in the community since.
00:01:35 Nora Ferreirós
20/20/2018 or something like that and.
00:01:41 Nora Ferreirós
At at the working Europe in Porto.
00:01:46 Nora Ferreirós
00:01:48 Nora Ferreirós
Ask me to to like invited me to correct me to make.
00:01:53 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, suggest you.
00:01:55 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, suggested me.
00:01:58 Nora Ferreirós
She’s pretty good doing that. You ask a question in the Q&A session with Josepha and Matt.
00:02:00 Nahuai Badiola
00:02:09 Nora Ferreirós
And I was like, yeah, sure. And then I I thought, OK, what I’m going to.
00:02:14 Nora Ferreirós
These people in front of I don’t know, hundreds of people. OK, so I ask now why? Because we were together in thisevent.
00:02:26 Nora Ferreirós
Like, OK, now why? What can we ask in this moment? Because there will be many people listening. So let’s use thisopportunity in a good way and we decided it could be a good opportunity to talk about sustainability because it.
00:02:44 Nora Ferreirós
It was a topic that some people were talking about, but there was not any initiative or something in WordPress community about it. So yeah, why not? It was.
00:02:56 Nora Ferreirós
Enough. OK, let’s do it. Then. We were expecting nothing of this. So yeah, I was there. I make the question. I Ibasically ask, OK, and what about sustainability? Can we have a team or a slack channel at least? And they said.
00:03:17 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, why not and I.
00:03:20 Nora Ferreirós
And I say what? OK, thank you. And yeah, many people. You’re in the channel in this very moment. It was super nicebecause when they they created this like channel just like there in that moment. And when I went back to my seat.
00:03:40 Nora Ferreirós
There was already 18 people in the.
00:03:42 Nora Ferreirós
Channel and I was.
00:03:44 Nora Ferreirós
Like I mean something and I and that’s quite the the the. Yeah. The story of the creation of the channel basicallybecause I I made a question in the right moment I suppose. Thank you. Rosio Olivia.
00:03:59 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, and thank you, Joseph. She was really quick taking.
00:04:04 Nahuai Badiola
Your your question and saying we can do that, we can make a slack channel and indeed it was done when you got set up already so that that.
00:04:15 Nahuai Badiola
Was I will.
00:04:16 Nahuai Badiola
Refer to some magical moments during this journey because the the idea is to explain a bit how this journey went and this was the first one.
00:04:24 Nahuai Badiola
Like seeing like you.
00:04:26 Nahuai Badiola
There struggling to be there and doing the questions, so it was very brief from your part because there were a lot ofpeople watching.
00:04:37 Nahuai Badiola
And and we are not native speaking people and that’s something that sometimes other people forget, but we don’t. So it was very brave from your part.
00:04:47 Nora Ferreirós
I went to say something I did, and I think never say it about.
00:04:53 Nora Ferreirós
Puerto orientation because they give people we were that that were making queue there for talking some papers. So you can write down your thoughts and you can make your question properly and it was super great because I was so nervous and my English was even bad.
00:05:12 Nora Ferreirós
More bad, but yeah, worse. It was worse. Yeah.
00:05:18 Nora Ferreirós
Than it is now. So yeah, thank you to. To the guy who.
00:05:24 Nora Ferreirós
Gave me the papers.
00:05:27 Nahuai Badiola
That’s that’s super cool, and indeed this this question has a little a big ripple effect, and one of the first one that wesaw after seeing the channel created was that Csaba were approached us when we were leaving the the venue onPortal and he said something like.
00:05:47 Nahuai Badiola
Wait a minute. Aren’t you the the person that asked about the sustainability?
00:05:53 Nahuai Badiola
And then maybe you can introduce yourself and and explain how you how was your point of view when this washappening? Yeah.
00:06:03 Csaba Varszegi
Yes, hello. Hi. Thanks. Also for inviting me to talk about this. Yes, it was actually a funny story because I was there.
00:06:11 Csaba Varszegi
Obviously at the conference and I was kind of listening to the questions, but for some reason, I.
00:06:18 Csaba Varszegi
Happened to miss the question I I think I.
00:06:20 Csaba Varszegi
Realized that it.
00:06:21 Csaba Varszegi
Was something about sustainability because I was. I was thinking about it.
00:06:24 Csaba Varszegi
And I was working.
00:06:26 Csaba Varszegi
Edits as a sustainable web designer or web developer for some time.
00:06:32 Csaba Varszegi
Also within WordPress.
00:06:34 Csaba Varszegi
For example, for default default things I contributed to it, but I missed the question and I heard something like. I thinksustainability. I asked the person, I think that was next to me. What?
00:06:46 Csaba Varszegi
That somebody has.
00:06:46 Csaba Varszegi
Something about stimuli.
00:06:49 Csaba Varszegi
So I kind of asked, I heard.
00:06:52 Csaba Varszegi
The creation of the channel as an answer and probably I was one of the 18 people then who already joinedimmediately, but I thought ohh no, I didn’t see who asked question I I completely missed this. I mean the light happening around this.
00:07:07 Csaba Varszegi
And so after that day at the conference, when I walked to the city and I was walking back actually to my place, I thought, and I’m.
00:07:17 Csaba Varszegi
Not sure how.
00:07:18 Csaba Varszegi
That I recognized one of you and for some reason I.
00:07:22 Csaba Varszegi
Yeah, I said.
00:07:24 Csaba Varszegi
Something so it was, it was great to, yeah.
00:07:28 Csaba Varszegi
To yeah, they have something live as well and not not only the the digital experience which we now have.
00:07:36 Nahuai Badiola
Now that that that was super nice because we were, I think probably we were talking about it in the way going to theAirbnb because we were super excited not I was on fire, it was.
00:07:45 Nahuai Badiola
Like this is happening.
00:07:46 Csaba Varszegi
00:07:47 Nahuai Badiola
This is super nice. And then you, you approach Thijs and then The funny thing is that we didn’t meet Thijs in in porto but you did so maybe Thijs you can join us in the conversation and explain how you lived the the moment of Nora ifyou were there and then how you met Csaba and how
00:08:07 Nahuai Badiola
You started to keep in touch with each other.
00:08:10 Thijs Buijs
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for for having me and short introduction. My name is Thijs, living in Utrecht, theNetherlands. I’m the owner of the digital marketing agency called Yellow Line. And indeed, I attended the word camp Europe in Porto and I saw Nora asking this question and.
00:08:30 Thijs Buijs
I’ve been using WordPress a lot for my work. For the work we deliver for our clients, but I’ve not really beencontributing. I’ve been attending and visit.
00:08:42 Thijs Buijs
Work camps and meet ups in the Netherlands as well, but this question hit me for some reason I thought well, this is a a smart question and the right answer and the right momentum as we all know we should be change behavior ofpeople and this might be.
00:09:01 Thijs Buijs
Something I can be part of. So I joined the select channel that was created at that moment and I’m not sure whoraised the question. Can we meet tonight? I believe it was Jabba. Yeah. Can we meet Tony?
00:09:16 Thijs Buijs
Right. And yeah, at the after party and and we did and it felt a little bit like a.
00:09:18 Csaba Varszegi
The Astro party.
00:09:26 Thijs Buijs
Like like like meeting an anonymous person, Csava.
00:09:29 Thijs Buijs
00:09:30 Thijs Buijs
Person behind. So I was really.
00:09:31 Nahuai Badiola
Blind date date.
00:09:35 Thijs Buijs
You don’t know.
00:09:36 Thijs Buijs
Who will appear? Is it the gentleman? Is it the lady?
00:09:42 Thijs Buijs
It it appeared to be a very friendly people from Antwerp and I could speak Dutch with him and there was like a clip.
00:09:49 Thijs Buijs
Like a blind date, it was a click. We had a good conversation about sustainability and about yeah, maybe a sharedquestion about making the world a better place to live on for ourselves, but also for future generations. So we had a first meeting. Maybe that was the first official meeting after the official meeting where the question was raised.
00:10:10 Thijs Buijs
That was a good starting point.
00:10:12 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah. Yeah, it was. So then afterwards, if I don’t remember badly, I think we left the the the working with maybe 40-50 people already join the channel. OK. And during the the next weeks, some people were joining and at the time I wastalking.
00:10:31 Nahuai Badiola
Bi Weekly with with Hannah to about sustainability, mainly sustainability, and I was also talking with Nora that therewere people joining and maybe some links were dropped about things of sustainability, but there were not muchorganizations so and we were afraid that we could lose the momentum.
00:10:51 Nahuai Badiola
If we didn’t try to put the the energy together, so we started meeting the the five of us. So, Hannah, Nora. Csaba. Thijsand I.
00:11:02 Nahuai Badiola
Trying to write something to and it was our first post post in make WordPress that it’s like it was something like hey wehave a slack channel. What do we do now with this? So the idea behind it was just try to to have some feedback fromthe people that were.
00:11:22 Nahuai Badiola
Already in the channel or from people that never heard about the channel, because that also happened. And so I remember that we posted it, it was a collaborative post we wrote between the five facade of.
00:11:36 Nahuai Badiola
Five of us, mainly Hannah. She’s a brilliant writer. I have to say she’s also a native speaking person, and it was postedon November 2022 in in May. That was something that we for doing that we already had to do some research on. Howdo you post to make?
00:11:56 Nahuai Badiola
Because I was reading things in May, but I didn’t know how to so there there’s been a lot of learning during the thejourney and since we saw Nora and I in the community.
00:12:06 Nahuai Badiola
Damn it, there are. There is not so much documentation about this kind of process, so there is no documentation onhow to start publishing or make. There is no documentation on how to become an official team, so we’ve been justtrying to talk with people, gather some information and go go with the flow, let’s say.
00:12:26 Nahuai Badiola
So do you remember? Uh, in in November? I remember, like after we posted, we had a lot of feedback. At least it wasquite a lot of feedback of what what I was expecting. Do you remember something that caught your eye or? Yeah. Something that you do you remember about it now?
00:12:48 Nora Ferreirós
I just remember being.
00:12:52 Nora Ferreirós
Worried all the time because I was so new and everything and I was thinking that in this community.
00:13:01 Nora Ferreirós
There was rules or standards or documentation or whatever, and there wasn’t, so I have to say I remember beingworried basically because you know, it was our vision, but I was feeling somebody has to move this forward. But I wasthinking.
00:13:22 Nora Ferreirós
Are we doing it?
00:13:25 Nora Ferreirós
In a good way, but I remember just to be happy about.
00:13:33 Nora Ferreirós
Receiving support from many people like OK I.
00:13:36 Nora Ferreirós
I we need this team or we need this initiative or we are interested in interested in what you are saying. So it was kindof this dual feelings about being worried of.
00:13:51 Nora Ferreirós
Making things properly and having the support of the community in in this because I was thinking I was we were like.
00:14:01 Nora Ferreirós
The five of us like alone, like nobody else.
00:14:05 Nora Ferreirós
We’re interested in sustainability and people will be will be like.
00:14:11 Nora Ferreirós
Why is a celebrity? Who are you? And it was quite the different people were really, really interested in the in the topic.
00:14:19 Nora Ferreirós
And and it.
00:14:20 Nora Ferreirós
Was what I was more shocked about or more.
00:14:23 Nora Ferreirós
I don’t know, I remember the.
00:14:24 Nahuai Badiola
Most I remember giving a lot of thought of how we wrote that part and also how we put our vision in a differentdocument because we didn’t want to come with like hey, this is.
00:14:37 Nahuai Badiola
Some brilliant ideas that we are going to post to make so everybody follow now. It was like hey, there is a lot of peopleinterested in this.
00:14:45 Nahuai Badiola
We think that we can approach sustainability in a broadened way. These are some ideas and if you are interested in the comments, we will leave our vision, let’s say. So the idea was really to to try to capitalize some people that.
00:14:59 Nahuai Badiola
Were already interested and they started to feel part of of the this, let’s call it initiative. So I don’t know. Do youremember anything else about it? Taiso ozawa.
00:15:13 Csaba Varszegi
I I remember that it was.
00:15:15 Csaba Varszegi
Indeed, like very carefully thought about how to involve everything and to gather ideas, especially because that’sprobably the thing that we didn’t very you know very much.
00:15:27 Csaba Varszegi
If people were interested and if we are, if we were approaching it the right way, so you were just.
00:15:33 Csaba Varszegi
One of the groups, maybe, who reacted on that post and tried to start something.
00:15:42 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, please. Do you want to add something?
00:15:45 Thijs Buijs
Yeah, I I don’t remember exactly the the, the, the, the moment or the timing that’s besides the post at at make. We alsoworked at a tiny lightweight.
00:15:57 Thijs Buijs
Website called our sustainable wp.org.
00:16:03 Thijs Buijs
Which led to to, to, to interesting discussions about, well, if we would like to make WordPress more sustainable and what’s involved in it, which topics do we?
00:16:18 Thijs Buijs
It’s not only the footprints of websites, but it’s also about the way we gather. It’s also about education, and I rememberat that time prior to launching this tiny website, we had some very good discussions about.
00:16:37 Thijs Buijs
OK. What will we focus on? Which are the topics we will hit and in what way?
00:16:41 Thijs Buijs
And being a marketer, maybe my approach was more bold than than and not that realistic. But if you if you want to toland on the moon, maybe your intention should be to land on Mars first.
00:17:00 Thijs Buijs
By traveling to Mars, you will pass by the moon.
00:17:04 Thijs Buijs
So I remember the creation of moon shots and some very good discussions which.
00:17:11 Thijs Buijs
The main discussion under was that we all have the same passion about making WordPress and the ecosystem more sustainable and not forget to mention that already a lot of things do occur.
00:17:27 Thijs Buijs
It’s not that nothing has happened. No, not we. We experience during during the meet ups during world camps, butalso the work that has already been done.
00:17:39 Thijs Buijs
Looking at plugins that have been developed, there’s already a lot of work done by great people contributing to to thecommunity and and yeah, I I feel pleased to be part of it and to to make the initiative move forward.
00:17:57 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, I remember that.
00:17:59 Nahuai Badiola
That there was quite a lot of people interested, so it was like, OK, we are not alone because during the this process ofdiscussing how do we put it, how do we post it, we didn’t know if the crickets were going to sound like nobody wasgoing to say anything. So there was some momentum. So I think after that.
00:18:15 Nahuai Badiola
We say, OK, maybe now we did this effort together, the five of us, just because it was easier to write and move itforward, but then start, we started to meet in, in the slack channel like our weekly meetings. We started in thisNovember and that was indeed one of the moments that where we.
00:18:35 Nahuai Badiola
Thought OK, if this can go further than an initiative. So if we would like to be an official team, one of the things that weknew that we have to do was the the weekly meetings in in Slack, so we.
00:18:48 Nahuai Badiola
Started and it was a nice starting point and we we were doing it for several months and I I will not do this discuss allthe journey because if not it’s going to be really long. But maybe we can move forward to around May which was.
00:19:08 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe there is something that Nora want to point out before we we move to May.
00:19:13 Nahuai Badiola
Go for it.
00:19:13 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah. I just want to say that we did not know anything. Javier Casares say to us, OK, the first thing you have to do ifyou want to move this forward is.
00:19:25 Nora Ferreirós
To make meetings and to have a summary of the meetings and so. So it was not an idea from us, it was.
00:19:36 Nahuai Badiola
No, no, yeah, but indeed the there’s been also a part of the journey we we’ve been gathering information for differentpeople, usually very kind people of the WordPress community that that were saying, OK you you want to go down thisroute. I think this is the way you should go and it was like we take with the note like Nora.
00:19:55 Nahuai Badiola
In the in the queue before doing the was I will write it wrote it down and we will move forward with.
00:20:02 Nahuai Badiola
And then that was a really interesting moment, because since we started to have the feeling that there was energybehind it and people behind it, we saw the possibility of becoming A-Team, something that could be real, let’s say. And we were doing the meetings.
00:20:22 Nahuai Badiola
But we were not publishing the agenda, not the summary, because you cannot do it if you are not a team.
00:20:30 Nahuai Badiola
So we are right to that point of catch 22 of saying, OK, how do we move forward? So I think I don’t know if it washeavier or another people from the I I think Angela also was at least on board with the idea of why don’t you explain in another make post.
00:20:50 Nahuai Badiola
That you’ve been meeting for several.
00:20:53 Nahuai Badiola
Now and you explain what are you done till now, that maybe we can go afterwards because we already were workingin a document for events more sustainable and also a plug in on how to surface some information about sustainabilitywas done by the hosting team, Javier, indeed. And so we.
00:21:13 Nahuai Badiola
We were doing things. Some things were things were happening in the meetings and I think this idea of publishing itmakes. So we did a proposal of we’ve been doing this. There is some traction. We’ve been doing some cool thingsand we can do more cool things if we become.
00:21:32 Nahuai Badiola
An official team, so I think we we published this post just before the work in Europe in Athens and it was reallyintentional because we wanted to have it before it before going to to Athens. Because in person happens.
00:21:53 Nahuai Badiola
Magic, as we saw in the in the previous work, and so we were happy and lucky.
00:22:00 Nahuai Badiola
That, yeah, maybe before we go to the contributor day in the work computer, maybe since you want to say something, yeah.
00:22:07 Thijs Buijs
Yeah, well, to prior to moving to to Athens, what was very wonderful is that there was a suggestion and I don’t knowwho suggested it anymore, but to have a table that’s contributed today.
00:22:19 Thijs Buijs
A sustainability table so people could join forces together with, with us still being an initiative to think about our roadmap and things like that.
00:22:31 Thijs Buijs
So that was already a great, great opportunity and a great event that we were.
00:22:38 Thijs Buijs
Having being an initiative our own table has contributed.
00:22:43 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, that’s true. I didn’t remember exactly the dates, how they fit, but I think they were quite.
00:22:50 Nahuai Badiola
Together. But yeah, that opportunity of having a table on work in Europe, I think that also propel us to say, OK, let’slet’s go.
00:22:58 Nahuai Badiola
With with it. So yeah, at that point the contributor day, we indeed we met for first time in person with ties, wasn’t ableto to come sadly, but we met and it was like, OK, you are even taller that I expected. That was my point of view. Probably the opposite was for you.
00:23:19 Thijs Buijs
Ohh he’s that tiny.
00:23:22 Nahuai Badiola
You Spanish people are short, funny and funny.
00:23:27 Nahuai Badiola
Anyway, we were on a stage saying, hey, let’s come to our first ever sustainability table, at least in our camp Europe, we were super happy and nervous. A lot of people came. We were really surprised and also different profiles ofpeople. So we sponsor people came like.
00:23:46 Nahuai Badiola
Medina, also Simon. And then people that were just interested in sustainability and the the question is always what are you doing?
00:23:58 Nahuai Badiola
This is still the question because Nora and I, we’ve been also in Barcelona and Pontevedra, and this is always the firstquestion in the in the table, but it’s Nice and something start to happen during the the the contributor date and we wereexplaining also this catch 22 of we’ve been meeting.
00:24:19 Nahuai Badiola
That we cannot publish, so probably we have to talk with someone that can unblock this this.
00:24:25 Nahuai Badiola
Art. So Simon was kind enough to invite Josepha to to come to the table. It was. She was kind, very kind. And sheasked a lot of questions to us. So he was like, OK, OK, I heard that you’ve been meeting. I see that you arrived to thispoint of you cannot publish, but you are doing meetings.
00:24:45 Nahuai Badiola
And she was asking about how we solved the sustainability, because sustainability can be a lot of things can be onlythe ecological or environmental part, but can be a lot of things more. And one of the.
00:25:01 Nahuai Badiola
Is the longevity of the open source project, so she was asking are you what are your plans?
00:25:09 Nahuai Badiola
And as I remember now you can correct me if I’m wrong. It was like no, we we really want to tackle as broaden as possible the sustainability.
00:25:20 Nahuai Badiola
Are aware that there is a lot of work, but we are also aiming to a lot of people to.
00:25:24 Nahuai Badiola
Joined and there was some moment where we, I think we understand each other. We also with I mean with Josefa itwas the agreement of OK, so you’ve been done some some work and you wrote a proposal you have some feedbackand maybe it’s time to move forward.
00:25:44 Nahuai Badiola
And I don’t know if you want to explain how did you leave the moment.
00:25:49 Nahuai Badiola
Thighs, maybe. And then Nora, because Nora was arrived a bit late, but she’s playing. She will explain that later.
00:25:57 Thijs Buijs
Had a pause for some reason, speaking about momentum.
00:26:03 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, yeah. I chose the great moment to.
00:26:05 Nora Ferreirós
Say, OK, I’m going now.
00:26:08 Thijs Buijs
But then now what’s good to mention I think is that.
00:26:11 Thijs Buijs
We we we published the needs and a post in which we suggested that the initiative.
00:26:18 Thijs Buijs
The Sustainability initiative wanted to become a team.
00:26:23 Thijs Buijs
And below this post there was a very good discussion about OK, but what is the focus if you speak about sustainabilityin relation to to open source in relation to WordPress, then it’s not only the ecological topic you touch as discussedpreviously, but it’s indeed the longer.
00:26:42 Thijs Buijs
To you as said by Navi, socially and economically, socially, like OK, who is going to contribute in the coming months, years and decades. So there is a reason that.
00:26:58 Thijs Buijs
WordPress still exists in in 10 years because we really depend on contributors.
00:27:05 Thijs Buijs
And also the economical part because if you have contributors.
00:27:09 Thijs Buijs
Ideally you would like to compensate them for the investment they do in time, mainly in time to contribute to to theprojects.
00:27:20 Thijs Buijs
So that’s also touching sustainability because you don’t want people to to be burned out after one year of contributingbecause they cannot manage.
00:27:30 Thijs Buijs
Things also you need to get new talents being part of the WordPress ecosystem. A lot of people use WordPress and they don’t even know that there’s a full entire community behind meeting so many times. And even those landmarkevents we have in Asia.
00:27:50 Thijs Buijs
The United States and Europe people are not aware of this, so there’s quite a job to be done if we speak aboutsustainability. It’s not only the ecological point topic, it’s also the social and economical that was already discussedbelow the post.
00:28:14 Thijs Buijs
And then there was a certain moment that Nora joins the party again.
00:28:19 Csaba Varszegi
I want to.
00:28:20 Csaba Varszegi
Hear that? Because I I didn’t really.
00:28:21 Csaba Varszegi
Hear that story yet?
00:28:23 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, yeah. That’s why we wanted also to give some.
00:28:24 Csaba Varszegi
00:28:27 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, I made my team making the question and then I was like, OK, I’m not going to be in the moment too anymore. I it was kind of funny because I I wasn’t in the table.
00:28:28 Nahuai Badiola
00:28:38 Nora Ferreirós
All the moment.
00:28:39 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, every minute there it was, just like 5 minutes.
00:28:41 Nahuai Badiola
00:28:43 Nora Ferreirós
I decided to.
00:28:44 Nora Ferreirós
To to go out. And when I came.
Back I was.
00:28:48 Nora Ferreirós
Like, why risk somebody in my seat?
00:28:52 Nora Ferreirós
And I was.
00:28:53 Nora Ferreirós
Like getting closer and I was like, oh, oh, OK.
00:28:58 Nora Ferreirós
But no worries now why?
00:28:59 Nora Ferreirós
Aren’t ice maybe cool?
00:29:03 Nora Ferreirós
So yeah, I have nothing to say about this moment, just my funny situation.
00:29:10 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, I. In fact, I I wanted to see the same ties as just said about the post because as I have said many times, I I am pretty new you know of this sustainability thing and we will post the proposal. It was like a clique, lot of people beganto comment.
00:29:30 Nora Ferreirós
To say OK, sustainability is a lot, it’s about many things. And I was like, whoa, yeah, really. We have something reallybig on on hands and it was great to know people and.
00:29:43 Nora Ferreirós
Sensitivity in many ways, even Yosefa had.
00:29:48 Nora Ferreirós
Her her point of view and it was kind of this all the sustainability table.
00:29:54 Nora Ferreirós
In in working.
00:29:56 Nahuai Badiola
You. I will leave a lot of links in the show notes because it’s going to be the the initial post of. We have a slack channel, let’s do things then the proposal that we are mentioning.
00:30:08 Nahuai Badiola
So you can also read the comments if you’re interested. Also the our vision in our sustainable WP dot.
00:30:15 Nahuai Badiola
And and also I lost the train of thought. There was another thing that I will mention later probably so.
00:30:24 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, at the.
00:30:24 Nahuai Badiola
00:30:26 Csaba Varszegi
No, because because you mentioned I wasn’t there. And I think also it was for us like a bit of chicken or the eggchicken or the egg question like to become a team we had to have something to show like proof of concept that we’re.
00:30:38 Csaba Varszegi
To do but also. Yeah, making choices is one of the important things in sustainability. So I I actually could have beenthere. But I was like, making this choice of not going because I couldn’t go.
00:30:50 Csaba Varszegi
They are flying and also I didn’t want to miss my son’s birthday 10th birthday, so it wasn’t.
00:30:56 Csaba Varszegi
Like not a special one.
00:30:58 Csaba Varszegi
But I’m very happy that you were there.
00:31:01 Nahuai Badiola
00:31:01 Csaba Varszegi
And you made.
00:31:02 Nahuai Badiola
We did. Maybe did we can touch on some of the things that we were already working during this weekly meeting. So because the the idea as as you can see, this has been a journey till the moment we arrive and we are able to talk withJoseph and say OK there is some work behind, there is some feedback. And so part of the work we.
00:31:23 Nahuai Badiola
Probably start doing it, or at least I recall it like.
00:31:26 Nahuai Badiola
Was putting together in a in a document recommendations or guidelines on how we can do the events of WordPress more sustainable? So that was a really interesting work we did because there were already some work camps thatwere done with sustainability in mind, so we were able to.
00:31:46 Nahuai Badiola
Grab some some ideas of those posts, or maybe there were not post, but there were people and we could ask askthem.
00:31:54 Nahuai Badiola
What? How did you approach this part? So I don’t know. I think right now is one of the things that is quite mature and maybe we can define the format and the idea would be to put it, we have to decide yet together with every all theteam, if it’s going to be inside the.
00:32:15 Nahuai Badiola
WordPress Work Handbook or if we want to do it in a different part and refer it, we have to define how. But how do youremember? Not the the the starting point of of this document?
00:32:32 Nora Ferreirós
No, no. Hello at all. No, no, I really don’t remember. When we when we started with with really.
00:32:34 Nahuai Badiola
00:32:41 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, maybe maybe twice, then if he remembers better, yeah.
00:32:44 Thijs Buijs
I remember one of those weekly meetings we had and.
00:32:47 Thijs Buijs
We had this.
00:32:48 Thijs Buijs
Suggestion to collect ideas about how we can make world camps.
00:32:55 Thijs Buijs
But also the workers meetings, the meet ups more sustainable and then Google Doc was created and during thismeeting of 45 minutes.
00:33:05 Thijs Buijs
I believe like 10 or 12 people were typing on this document like like like crazy and at the end of the meeting we hadlike 5-5 pages, not only with suggestions but also with what has already been done at different.
00:33:20 Thijs Buijs
Word camps. I remember a suggestion that there’s always a good discussion about swag and we know the importanceof sponsors during events, and one of the the, the the great suggestions I heard was like a pencil that was used as swag during conference in India and one.
00:33:39 Thijs Buijs
Once you’ve used the entire pencil, you can put it in the ground.
00:33:42 Thijs Buijs
And the tree starts.
00:33:43 Thijs Buijs
Growing awesome. Great example coming from India from all over the world. People were joining forces and makingthese documents. It’s so valuable and that’s I think a great example of people not only joining a select group but alsowilling to contribute and to push things forward. Excellent.
00:34:03 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, yeah, indeed. I will put also this document because we are still refining and giving the the last touches. So if youwant to contribute, please feel free to to come and.
00:34:14 Nahuai Badiola
Comment and the other thing that we’ve been doing, but now is all in a bit in a standby is the plug in to just displaysome information of the sustainability. In this case, it’s going to be related with the hosting and the CO2. And so theidea we have to decide.
00:34:34 Nahuai Badiola
Because we have more than one plugin right now that does this, but, but I’m going to explain just a bit the the rationalebehind it. The idea is to, for example, go to the Greenway Foundation API and there we can see if it’s hosted in a green hosting or not. So we can sure.
00:34:52 Nahuai Badiola
Is that in site health or in the dashboard? If we wanted to and then do an estimation of CO2 and put it maybe in intocontext. So the idea would be to suffice some information about this and leave some links. So if the people are interested or saying oh.
00:35:12 Nahuai Badiola
CO2 related with my website my with my website. I never thought about it. They can go so I don’t know if in this pointyou want to expand a little bit about that. You’ve been also working in one of them and now we have to decide how it’sgoing.
00:35:27 Nahuai Badiola
How we can choose? Because the end idea and now I give you is to have a very simple lean plugin that can be adopted inside the core of WordPress if everything goes.
00:35:41 Csaba Varszegi
Yeah, that would be quite nice. And we could see part of it or something. Maybe you never know in core, but indeedthat’s the the main idea of the plugin is like spreading awareness about the fact that if your website you.
00:35:56 Csaba Varszegi
Carbon footprints because of your website and if you realize that, that’s that that is like that always. What can you do about it to minimize it, to make it as small as possible. And that’s a very broad subject, but I think WordPress is a verygreat tool to surface this.
00:36:17 Csaba Varszegi
Website Users, developers first maybe, and then users as well. And within WordPress we have site health which givesyou already a lot of information about your websites and how to.
00:36:18 Nahuai Badiola
00:36:31 Csaba Varszegi
Because there’s always this, there’s really great. You have always an actionable point, or for most.
00:36:37 Csaba Varszegi
Tests that are being done in inside health. So one of the ideas was indeed to 1st.
00:36:44 Csaba Varszegi
Show whether it’s if it’s on green green energy you’re hosting is green energy using green energy to.
00:36:51 Csaba Varszegi
Host your upside.
00:36:52 Csaba Varszegi
And then maybe.
00:36:54 Csaba Varszegi
00:36:54 Csaba Varszegi
People an idea how much?
00:36:56 Csaba Varszegi
Carbon footprints their website has, but we are figuring that out because it’s it’s very it’s very tricky. We don’t want toadd a lot of bloats to our website and besides that I think there are still other opportunities like.
00:37:15 Csaba Varszegi
Maybe with regard to media to give suggestions to compress their images, things like that.
00:37:24 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, I think that there is room for, for for improvement and for.
00:37:26 Csaba Varszegi
Visible there, yeah.
00:37:30 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, yeah. Information to to be there. So yeah, maybe after the the, I don’t know if it was the 2nd magical momentthat was work in Europe, that it was. Yeah. I just want to remember the moment that we came back to the states to.
00:37:50 Nahuai Badiola
To just review what we’ve done in during the day and face was really pump out, I was like we enter like initiative and we leave the contributor really funny moment to to live in the in the stage.
00:38:09 Nahuai Badiola
And then afterwards we started to write together, collaborate collaboratively, the road map. And it’s also another link that I will drop in the in the show notes. Because right there you can see that there are.
00:38:26 Nahuai Badiola
A lot of ideas and you will see that they are.
00:38:29 Nahuai Badiola
Divided in the three different pillars of sustainability that we have been talking about a lot during this podcast. That isthe environmental, the social and the economic. So if you want we.
00:38:41 Nahuai Badiola
Could start to wrapping up a bit on how or which things do you think or are more excited or more willing to work on orjust yeah, something like that.
00:38:56 Nahuai Badiola
00:38:57 Nahuai Badiola
Know that if you are listening to this and now we come and thinks that you are not really that interested, but you findothers in the road map or you have your own idea that you are more than welcome to come to the Slack channel and and discuss, discuss it with us and and move it forward. So yeah, first you want to start.
00:39:16 Thijs Buijs
Yeah, but what I think it’s important to mention and something we, we all are all aware of is that we cannot do it alone. So all the things on the road map.
00:39:29 Thijs Buijs
We can only do it with all the contributors who are willing to participate, but we shouldn’t forget that there’s alreadygreat work being done.
00:39:39 Thijs Buijs
By other teams like the hosting team like core, like the Community Performance not to forget to mention indeed so much great work already done and that also touches sustainability and there’s been a lot of help.
00:39:42 Nahuai Badiola
00:39:46 Nahuai Badiola
00:39:59 Thijs Buijs
From other people, from other, from other teams to to bring things in motion and move things things forward.
00:40:07 Thijs Buijs
So we’re really pleased to see how many people have a very positive attitude towards our new new team and we onlycan do it together. That’s also for all those items which are on the road maps and future things that will be added to theto the road map.
00:40:26 Thijs Buijs
It’s important to mention that we are.
00:40:29 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, yeah, yeah, indeed. We I think there was a really good point because I was not explicit in giving thanks to othergroups. I was doing it to other people in general. But it’s really nice to have other teams that are going in the samedirection that we want to go. And there is a lot of collaboration potential.
00:40:50 Nahuai Badiola
And it’s really nice to have them already doing really cool things, yeah.
00:40:57 Nahuai Badiola
So yeah, I remember which link I was missing to mention is that Nora explained a bit the the experience of the worldCamp Europe in Athens and the the official team formation in a make post. So I will also put it in the show notes. Yeah, so so this is going to be back with the links.
00:41:17 Nahuai Badiola
If you want to to go down that road, so maybe not. Do you want to explain or yeah, say which things are more excitingto you or what are you looking forward to?
00:41:29 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah, taking the idea that has just shared.
00:41:33 Nora Ferreirós
The good thing here is.
00:41:35 Nora Ferreirós
Indeed, we as a as a security team have to collaborate with the other teams. So it’s not just about random. Yeah, collaborators who has to.
00:41:48 Nora Ferreirós
To come to the team to, you know, help the community to have more sustainable events or the playing or whatever. But if you are participating in another team, maybe I don’t know the photo team or I don’t know, community team.
00:42:07 Nora Ferreirós
There there are.
00:42:09 Nora Ferreirós
Many things you can do about austerity in your team, so you have any idea on how can your team be improved fromthe sustainability approach?
00:42:23 Nora Ferreirós
We will be more than happy to receive you because we don’t know about the work every team in work is is is make.
00:42:32 Nora Ferreirós
So it will be really useful for us to have people from from any other team telling OK in, you know, design photos orwhatever.
00:42:43 Nora Ferreirós
We can do this. We could. We need help to make this team more sustainable or whatever, and it’s something I think isquite exciting about WordPress and in the other hand.
00:43:00 Nora Ferreirós
I love the the working meet tab system book an idea because as meet tab organizer.
00:43:08 Nora Ferreirós
You can you can help from the the work you are doing in your city or your town like you can contribute to our teamtelling OK in my town we are making these things or we need help to do things or even more sustainable. So thishandbook.
00:43:28 Nora Ferreirós
I feel just excited to to contribute to the hand this handbook because it’s not just about, I don’t know as a designer. Forme core it’s something real.
00:43:37 Nora Ferreirós
We I don’t know strength for me because I don’t know how to contribute to core because I don’t know how. But if youare just a meet up organizer from a little town, you can contribute to the handbook and we need you to do so. In fact, because it’s.
00:43:58 Nora Ferreirós
Of us has.
00:44:01 Nora Ferreirós
An experience that can be useful for making the community sustainable, not just in an environmental way, but if you I don’t know if your community, your local community, are really good attracting, you know, young people or peoplefrom, I don’t know, minority.
00:44:22 Nora Ferreirós
Please tell us and we will put that in that in, in the handbook or help another team to put this this ideas in their in theirhumble or whatever. So yeah, I think this is.
00:44:36 Nora Ferreirós
Some of the things I feel really excited have contributed to our team.
00:44:39 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, I think that the the guidelines that we are writing or putting together are really cool because the idea is thatorganizers of events already have a lot of workload that it’s usually not paid. So it’s voluntary. So putting.
00:44:59 Nahuai Badiola
All the cool ideas that has already been done or within that can be done in a document so the organizer can just readand check and say, OK, I can do this, I can do that. I cannot do.
00:45:14 Nahuai Badiola
That other one because of the budget or because of the location, but at least it’s all together and they don’t have tospend time thinking on how could I. So yeah, I’m super excited also of having it wrap and put it in whatever wedecided together that it should go. And that’s really cool. I I don’t know.
00:45:34 Nahuai Badiola
Sarah, do you have any?
00:45:35 Nahuai Badiola
Thing that you want to mention.
00:45:38 Csaba Varszegi
00:45:39 Csaba Varszegi
Yep, I agree with everything that.
00:45:41 Csaba Varszegi
You said and.
00:45:43 Csaba Varszegi
I think also it’s it’s it’s very interesting to go both ways like people having getting ideas from from what we havegathered here and making it available like hand bookers.
00:45:55 Csaba Varszegi
Other way and also to.
00:45:58 Csaba Varszegi
Yeah, to be able to bring their ideas to to our, to the, to the, the team and and and like everything that can make thingsmore sustainable.
00:46:09 Csaba Varszegi
Would be like summarized somewhere and then people can don’t have to start from zero or or have to go to externalsources.
00:46:19 Csaba Varszegi
So I am very excited about everything we are we having on our road map. I hope the road map is kind of clear. So ifyou share it, we have a lot of links there to documents.
00:46:28 Csaba Varszegi
And everything. But of course, yeah, everyone has to choose something to work on. And because of time limitations, because of capabilities and stuff. So.
00:46:39 Nahuai Badiola
Indeed, right now when we are recording this podcast, we are during the process of the voting of the teen reps and afterwards we will probably start picking from the road map together in the slack meetings which things actionable wecan do. So the document part is already.
00:47:00 Nahuai Badiola
On motion. But if you are listening to this and you have some idea that you want to move forward from the road map orsomething new that you.
00:47:08 Nahuai Badiola
App please. This is come to the slack channel. This is the perfect moment and since you already heard during theepisode that sustainability there is so many things that lie under the umbrella of sustainability that a lot of can be done and we have, we can have different small groups working on different things and so people can work in the things thatare.
00:47:29 Nahuai Badiola
Closer to to their heart. So I think that’s one of the nice things of the sustainability team that there is a lot of things thatcan be done and you can choose what is.
00:47:40 Nahuai Badiola
The things that you want to contribute to, so I don’t know if you want to do any final call to people to join us and andand do cool things.
00:47:51 Thijs Buijs
We are a fun, fun bunch of people. We we have fun together reading invitation to to join the meeting which isorganized every Friday to join it on Slack. It’s a slack chat meeting, so you’re more than welcome to to join thismeeting.
00:47:52 Csaba Varszegi
00:48:11 Thijs Buijs
And follow the discussions, the lively discussions we.
00:48:14 Thijs Buijs
We have and and see if you want to contribute only if you have like 30 minutes a week, then you’re already welcometo to join and to pick up some of the work. That would be great. Thank you.
00:48:24 Nahuai Badiola
Indeed, indeed I will also put the link to the to the slack channel so you can go directly clicking go.
00:48:33 Csaba Varszegi
Yeah, I think because just like we said, sustainability is such a broad thing. I think there’s an opportunity for everyoneto to contribute to the team and each idea is welcome we can.
00:48:47 Csaba Varszegi
Talk about it and you can start things.
00:48:50 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, it’s not a side. You don’t have to have a technical profile. You can have indeed any kind of profile. So that’s oneof the cool things. Yeah. Nora, do you want to add something else before we?
00:49:02 Nora Ferreirós
Yeah. I just want to add that if you are having, you are being an working organizer or meat organizer, you want to tolead a sustainability table or have any kind of sustainability event or initiative. It will be super cool for us to help you orto say something.
00:49:23 Nora Ferreirós
So you are just invited to.
00:49:26 Nora Ferreirós
To to make it because we are in this kind of initial moment, yeah, that we can just experiment and just ask people whatthey expect for sustainability. So it’s an interesting moment, even if you have not experience about sustainability.
00:49:46 Nora Ferreirós
Your security. Please don’t be afraid of leaving tables or making talks or asking somebody to join your local communityand.
00:49:58 Nora Ferreirós
And talk about the thing and or or ask people what they think about sustainability can be another cool way ofcontributing. And of course you are inviting invited to to our meetings and channel where you want.
00:50:14 Nahuai Badiola
OK, I think that was a fantastic wrap up. So yeah, thank.
00:50:18 Csaba Varszegi
00:50:18 Csaba Varszegi
00:50:20 Csaba Varszegi
Yeah, it’s like 11 UTC Fridays.
00:50:24 Csaba Varszegi
To be explicit about that.
00:50:26 Nahuai Badiola
Yeah, I will put it also in the show notes and I will put some lights like click here to join our slack meeting. You are more than welcome and as.
00:50:37 Nahuai Badiola
I say we.
00:50:38 Nahuai Badiola
Are nice and funny people. Some some are.
00:50:43 Nahuai Badiola
So funny people in a good way. I mean, because in in, in English has a double.
00:50:50 Nahuai Badiola
Meaning. So yeah, thanks a lot Nora, Csaba. Thijs. It’s been a delight to go down the memory line to remember howthis started, and it’s super cool to see how it’s maturing and how people is joining the the like channel. And I hope thatthis.
00:51:09 Nahuai Badiola
Also give some yeah some boost to to new people that maybe didn’t hear about it yet and say, OK, it looks like itsounds like they are doing nice, cool things. So yeah, thanks a lot for coming and.
00:51:25 Nahuai Badiola
See you in the next meeting.
00:51:28 Thijs Buijs
Thank you. Thank you.
00:51:33 Nahuai Badiola
Thanks for listening. I hope you found the journey we share interesting and more importantly that it inspired you to jointhe team in the next slide meeting.
00:51:42 Nahuai Badiola
Remember that you can find all the resources mentioned during the episode in the show notes. You will also find more information about this episode guests.
00:51:51 Nahuai Badiola
I would love to hear your opinions on this topic. For that you can leave a comment on the website. You can go to sustainwp.com/7 or share it in the social media platform you are more comfortable on if you think that the episode could be interesting to WordPress colleagues, please share it.
00:52:11 Nahuai Badiola
The next episode will be the last of the limited podcast series. In it, I will summarize what we’ve been talking about and also share some wishes from part of our guest to make WordPress more sustainable. I hope you join me there. Byebye.
Role: Sustainable web designer at LittleBigThings
Bio: Csaba is a minimalist web developer at LittleBigThings. He loves creating sustainable stuff. He is author of a tiny blog globalwarning.blog, blogs about WordPress at csaba.blog and contributes to WordPress as well. He enjoys finding pleasure and purpose in little things and everyday life.